My patience has finally run out

[yorweb]

Been a Indexu user for over 4 years but quite frankly my patience has just about run out. I thought 3.2 would be the answer to my prayers but all that has happened is some improved coding to increase the previous shockingly poor performance.

You can't edit it the templates properly, the coding is wildly inconsistent and it's abundantly clear that the author has not even bothered to test this product before releasing it. The table creation is a testament to this.

Support is an absolute joke. The author disappears for weeks and when he does come back and replies to questions, they rarely solve the issue raised.

I am also not convinced by Index 3.2E. The lack of documentation is alarming. Might come as a bit of a shock to ESM but if I actually wanted to read every single line of code in each file that comes in that archive, don't you think I would have instead spent the same 3-4 weeks writing a PHP directory myself? You, ESM, might know what all your files do but I ain't friggin' telepathic.

I am now giving it 48 hours or it gets dumped.

[aladdin1]

Been a Indexu user for over 4 years but quite frankly my patience has just about run out. I thought 3.2 would be the answer to my prayers but all that has happened is some improved coding to increase the previous shockingly poor performance.

You can't edit it the templates properly, the coding is wildly inconsistent and it's abundantly clear that the author has not even bothered to test this product before releasing it. The table creation is a testament to this.

Support is an absolute joke. The author disappears for weeks and when he does come back and replies to questions, they rarely solve the issue raised.

I am also not convinced by Index 3.2E. The lack of documentation is alarming. Might come as a bit of a shock to ESM but if I actually wanted to read every single line of code in each file that comes in that archive, don't you think I would have instead spent the same 3-4 weeks writing a PHP directory myself? You, ESM, might know what all your files do but I ain't friggin' telepathic.

I am now giving it 48 hours or it gets dumped.

Hello,

Having been an Indexu users for several years I agree with most of your point , except your attack on EMS.
EMS is not official support, he did not get a cents of your money, what he does is out of the goodness of his heart not out of obligation.
Blast Dody as much as you want do not blast other users it is counter productive and unfair.

[esm]

actually, yorweb did purchase v3.2E so he can give his opinion on it.

when I first saw INDEXU a little over one and half years ago, I had never used PHP. and I had no idea how to program in it.

while I think it is a very good program and better than most, I have come to a number of conclusions. One of which is that INDEXU is not for everyone. And that is not a "slam" again those who don't like it but merely the recognition that we all have different abilities and talents. And as such, another program may be more in line with those abilities and talents.

LINKS SQL from gossamer threads is a great program but it is definately not in line with my abilities and talents. or look at aladdin's scripts directory ( http://www.scriptsandstuffs.com/brow...ams-847-1.html ) and you will find many differnt links programs. BTW, I am working with him on installing v3.2E and getting it up and running.

does v3.2/v3.2E have bugs in them? Sure they do. EVERY scripts program will have bugs. And while dody did not provide a timely updated version, most of them have been identified and solutions provided.

dody will tell you himself that he has not provided timely support in the past year or so. but he is back and his support is as excellent as ever.

to get INDEXU up and running is no small task. that is one reason why I offered to install v3.2E free for those who purchase it ( NOTE: I did not install yorweb's v3.2E ). but that is just the beginning. to customize it with your "own look and feel" takes extreme effort.

And I would agree that documentation is minimal for v3.2/v3.2E. Writing documentation is no fun which is why I guess programmers rely so heavily on forums such as these for the "How Do I" question.

As for speed, well, I ran my demo site with 122,000+ links and 5,000+ categories and it seems just fine to me.



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[Frank71]

esm and not EMS !

Documentation and templates are really bad, I can understand yorweb. Because of that I search someone who wants to do the installation of 3.2 and 3.2E and if possible some templates changes, because I haven't the time to crawl again to all that code to get some basic results...

Frank

[dody]

We have 30 days refund policy so if you're not satisfied with our product you can have full refund.

Perhaps we do not monitor the forum for past fews months, but we still provide customer service via email. Email us at support@nicecoder.com and we will help you to solve the problem.

[yorweb]

I wrote that initial message after losing my rag but I have calmed down a bit now. However I am not some numpty trying out Indexu for the first time, I am a seasoned user who has also spent 3 years at university in the UK completing a degree in Computer Science.

When I ask a question, I don't expect some half-hearted reply from the author of a program I have paid for. Dody's reply "You must check your html, in header, footer, and index.html make sure all tags properly closed" to my post regarding malformed tables got me very angry. Why the f#ck should I have to check? I don't expect to have to re-write or debug such elementary errors, that is the author's role.

I feel a bit sorry for ESM because the guy is trying his best but he too is charging $99 and as his client, I expect something working and documented in return. However replying that customising takes "extreme effort" is a bit of a cop out as it's like saying I will sell you something but you won't be able to use it. Might sound a tad arrogant but if I am having trouble customising with the experience and education level I possess, how on earth is the casual user going to cope. In the real estate world there 3 rules in property buying being "location, location and location" and in software it's "documentation, documentation and documentation."

However as I said earlier, I have calmed down a bit now and will start again to install both 3.2 and 3.2E. I have already dedicated so much time to this software that another 3-4 days im the grand scale of things means nothing. I will also start another thread titled "Installing 3.2 and 3.2E" so others can contribute and perhaps as a group we can actually take this software forward.

Finally I will comment on Dody's offer of a refund and quite frankly I find his attitude stinks. We are not buying a product like a TV or washing machine where we can simply return it if it doesn't work. We are buying software and at $99 quoting version 3.2, one assumes that he (or she) is purchasing a reasonably mature product. The time and effort we then put into creating our websites is many times that of our initial investment and we don't expect to then have to spend days and weeks going through a website forum finding answers on bugs and coding discrepancies. Beta testers always used to get paid to test out software but Dody has introduced a whole new concept where you pay $99 for the privilege.

[roy]

I think that is too extreme.
If you wanted to customize your layout and stuff, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and not the author's to check tables.
If you are proficient at HTML, you should have no problem debugging the malformed table problem.
Table is a pretty basic tag, it doesn't even require a BS in Comp Sci.
Take a look at cars, if you decided to soup it up, it will not be covered by manufacturer's warranty.
If you are doing extreme makeovers to your script you cannot expect Dody to support it.

Dody's reply "You must check your html, in header, footer, and index.html make sure all tags properly closed" to my post regarding malformed tables got me very angry. Why the f#ck should I have to check? I don't expect to have to re-write or debug such elementary errors, that is the author's role.

[yorweb]

I think that is too extreme.
If you wanted to customize your layout and stuff, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and not the author's to check tables.
If you are proficient at HTML, you should have no problem debugging the malformed table problem.
Table is a pretty basic tag, it doesn't even require a BS in Comp Sci.
Take a look at cars, if you decided to soup it up, it will not be covered by manufacturer's warranty.
If you are doing extreme makeovers to your script you cannot expect Dody to support it.

I've ditched Indexu and moved on mate.

[dwirken]

I have been running 2 sites now www.444.net and www.techcubic.com and we have not have any problems with the coding any problems we have we fixed. you must see a 99$ software as a template and not compare it with 999,-$ or 9999,-$ products, So if you have coding problems mayby i can help and get your site up and running and do what you need to do and thats promotion of your site. thats what i am doing. www.techcubic.com has now nearly 300.000 backlinks. and i hope to be at the end of the year close to 500.000. so any coding problems sent me a Pm and i will have a look of i can help you.

[Frank71]

Right words, HTML is bad, but not the problem of the script. Never you'll find a script which is readdy to use, because in that case 1000 users will use the same...

dwirken, did you get my message ?

Frank

[Aircut]

i do agree. the program is a mess in coding. full of bugs and mal advertise. many features in multiple admin simply does not exist. this is the biggest rippof. and ESM is putting false reviews on hotscripts.com.... so fools never die. save your money folks

[esm]

i do agree. the program is a mess in coding. full of bugs and mal advertise. many features in multiple admin simply does not exist. this is the biggest rippof. and ESM is putting false reviews on hotscripts.com.... so fools never die. save your money folks

I had kinda forgotten what I wrote in the review at Hotscripts. Here is what I wrote:

Great Links software, Aug 22, 2003
Reviewed By: esm2002
Review Of: INDEXU in PHP :: Link Indexing
Easy to install and works right out-of-the-box. Easy to import your links. Uses PHP/mySQL and easy to customize. The code is extremely easy to read and change. Support is offered in public forums. Sorts Pick/Sponsor links at top of listing. Create subcatories as deep as you want. Favorites panel. Easy template-based html pages. Easy to contol access to certain features, pages.

With the one exception of the support issue most of what I wrote a year and a half ago is still very accurate. I could change a few things like: "Easy to import your G-T or CSV links" or "Easy template-based html pages" to "Most html pages are template-based and easy to change."

Now a couple of things about the support issue. First, the review really does not characterize the quality of support. For example, I didn't say it was "great" support or "lousy" support or "good" support. I just said that the support is offered thru public forums.

Second, at the time I wrote that, that was a true statement. At that time the message boards were vibrant with many members participating, offering suggestions, help and modifications. dody was deeply involved in the message boards at that time, ready to help when needed.

I only learned about email support on 01-31-05 when dody made the following post: http://www.nicecoder.com/community/s...ead.php?t=2634. Even then I didn't fully understand that dody was no longer offering official support thru the message boards until I read this post from him http://www.nicecoder.com/community/s...62&postcount=4 as part of this thread http://www.nicecoder.com/community/s...ead.php?t=2670

Obviously, the support is different today. Officially, it is by email only. As to the quality of support, well, here is my observation: "some folks have reported terrific email support from dody while others report no response from him even after repeated attempts to contact him. Email support for installation help appears to good while other types of support appears to hit or miss. While message boards are no longer the method for official support, they can provide some additional information on installation help, "how to", bugs and hacks/MODs as posted by other members."

So I stand by my Hotscripts review. However, as the support issue has changed I will try to update that issue based upon my previous comments.

As for you other comments, I think I can support my point of view that the "program is NOT a mess in coding." I think the coding is pretty damn good. And I can show you lots of examples in other Links programs that are damn near impossible to understand. If you find it difficult to understand INDEXU code, you will not definately not understand this other code.

Coding is one thing but bugs are a different issue. I would agree with you that there were quite a few bugs in v3.1 that dody issued. And dody was certainly remiss in not updating the download version as they were discovered. And it damn near took a revolt by the members to get him to finally issue v3.2. That was inexcusable on his part.

The only major bug that I am currently aware of in v3.2 is in the Editor's area. I think I fixed all the Editor's bugs in v3.2 but I only diid so for v3.2E. So, I would agree with you that the Editor's feature doesn't work.

But bugs abound in software. take a look at :
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/perl...rch_string=bug
http://turn-k.net/forum/10.html
http://www.phpwebscripts.com/forum/s...p?mode=results and enter the word bug

I don't think INDEXU is any buggier than other other programs. The real issue is how does the progammer respond to those bugs. Most of the bugs were identified and resolved, either by dody or others. They were all posted in the bug forum. but dody never updated the download which meant you had to "apply" the fixes yourself. and he got to the point where he did not respond to the bugs even in the forums.

We can only hope the new "bug tracker" software will be an improvement over the current situation and that dody will update the download version when new bug fixes are delivered.

As for advertised features the best advise is "Let the buyer beware." I don't say that because the seller is trying to "rip you off" although that does occur from time to time. But most often it is a case "mis-communication." I have learned that much with my limited venture of v3.2E. I described a feature one way but the buyer interpreted it another way.

My advise is that if you need a particular feature you should take the position that the programmer did NOT implement it the way you want or the way you used the same feature in a similar program. The best you can do is ask enough questions before you purchase with the hope that you come away with as good an understanding of the feature as possible before you buy it.




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[Chemo]

As for you other comments, I think I can support my point of view that the "program is NOT a mess in coding." I think the coding is pretty damn good.

esm,

I have to disagree. IMO, the code is functional but not "clean", consistent, or most importantly scalable.

I do a lot of development with an open source shopping cart (oscommerce) and my community profile is here: Chemo's osCommerce profile. Check out a few of my contributions and see my coding style. I offer this so you know I'm not some guy off the street that started coding PHP a few weeks ago.

It seems as though the product/project has fallen behind in development. IMO, Dody should get a few more programmers on his staff to help the cause. While he's at it the codebase should be rewritten to be more scalable. This serious drawback was cited a major improvement for v4.0 but nothing has materialized.

Maybe we should fork and start our own project?

Bobby

[aladdin1]

esm,

I have to disagree. IMO, the code is functional but not "clean", consistent, or most importantly scalable.

I do a lot of development with an open source shopping cart (oscommerce) and my community profile is here: Chemo's osCommerce profile. Check out a few of my contributions and see my coding style. I offer this so you know I'm not some guy off the street that started coding PHP a few weeks ago.

It seems as though the product/project has fallen behind in development. IMO, Dody should get a few more programmers on his staff to help the cause. While he's at it the codebase should be rewritten to be more scalable. This serious drawback was cited a major improvement for v4.0 but nothing has materialized.

Maybe we should fork and start our own project?

Bobby

Hello,

It is difficult to fork from a commercial application unless one want to donate his/her work to code owner so he can sell it. Needless to say that it is not my intention! We maybe able to do something with esm "LinkCoder"
This say I always thought that starting or own project is the best way to go

[esm]

esm,
I have to disagree. IMO, the code is functional but not "clean", consistent, or most importantly scalable.

I did have a look at some of your coding and I can certainly understand your point of view. My point of view stems from two areas:

First, the software costs only $99 ( I think it cost even less for prior versions ). I think for links software that is about mid-range with some costing more and some costing less. So for $99 I think INDEXU is pretty good from a coding point of view.

Second, INDEXU was written by just dody, at least for the most part. a lady named sofiah did help a little. And apparently, zubby is helping him with v4. Once again for just one person doing the coding, I think the coding is pretty good.

Is it a mess and inconsistent? I think that there are certain parts that could be described that way. But I would not descibe the entire body of work that way. As a hacker, I can easily follow the flow of the coding and I understand that coding as I read it.

As to scalability, v3.1 had its problems when there were a lot of categories and/or a deep level of categories. v3.2 easily handled the 5000+ columns and the 122000+ links. I have not heard of how many cat/links INDEXU will actually handle before it begins to have problems. And I have no idea as to how much INDEXU can handle in other areas.

On the scalability issue it appears that INDEXU is able to hold its own with comparably priced links programs. But I would certainly be interested in your observations about the software in this area.

Maybe we should fork and start our own project?

As aladdin suggests my LinksCoder program has some potential in this area but I am under no illusion that my coding skills are of a professional quality. I'll probably develop it for one of my sites but that is about all. I am more interested in providing solutions to problems that in writing professional code. I know that both can be done; it's just that my skills are in the former and not the latter - I can solve the problem but it's still just hacker code.



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