Why 2 kind of accounts? Whats the point?

[Humle]

I have been wondering why there are 2 kinds of user accounts, 1 for submitting a link and one where you can add your favorite listings, comments... what ever. The one thing that joins these accounts is that there are very limited options on both of them.

So why not be satisfied with one single account for visitors?


And dont you just hate the way you are supposed to login when you want to modify your listing

Wo remembers their listings "ID" numer?


BUG-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And by the way. It doesn´t perform a keyword search from this site. I have only 2 keywords on my test site and when I search for them from the login site to modify the listing, nothing is found?
BUG-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


If a visitor wants to add a listing he could create an account specifying his e-mail address as "Username" and a "Password" and then he could use this account to add favorite listings, comments ..... etc AND website listings.

And if we were to really start talking about user friendly sites it would also be possible for the user to add more than one listing from this account just created.

I have several sites and most companies have more than one website.

I hate it when I visit a searchenging or linkindex and want to registere my sites - > Then I have to create a new User Account for every listing I want to make ---> and therefore I receive in some cases up to 7 newsletters from the same linkindex because I have been forced to use a different e-mail address every time I wanted to add a listing to their site

[esm]

there are two kind of accounts because there are two distinct kinds of folks who use your site: those that surf in looking for links and those that post links on your site. But it is easy to hack the code and have just one.

As for hating to login to "modify your listing," if I understand what you are suggesting, then anyone could login to modify your listing. that would not be a good idea.

As for remembering the ID number, my experience is that folks are not any better at remembering their user name. that's what all those "forgot your password" links do. ( they send the username and password ).

as for multiple logins, that is more a function of the server and mysql than an issue with INDEXU. It is possible to share the user table but it that is something you would have to do outside of INDEXU. that is true of any program that you install and want "multiple instances" of the software.

[TLC]

Humle,

I understand exactly what you mean.

But I agree with esm on the need for two user accounts where the lister sometimes needs to be verify more throughly than the casual user; the lister also needs different tools than the casual user too.

On the subject where you have to remember a resource id and a numeric password for each listing, I agree with you completely that it is very user UNfriendly. Therefore, it makes sense to have a manager's account where one can add links after logging in, or in your suggestion put in their username and password.

And I think you don't mean to allow others to modify your links, just that all links created by you should be under the same username and password so that when you login, you can change your own links without remembering passwords and resource ids

This is the only part I dislike about indexu, the lack of a central protected area to add, modify, see a list of your own links, all under one username and password login, but that is what I am working right now; its some work but quite manageable with a series of mods from indexuhelp.com

[esm]

well, after 3+ years of messing around with them, this is my take on link-directory type programs: they all have about the same feature set. Just compare the core features of INDEXU with those in Links SQL and in-link ( heck, Links 2 has the same core features and it is just a flat file written in Perl ).

Check out their msg boards. One guy wants this and another guy wants that. One guy sings the praises of this feature and another guy thinks the same feature stinks. One guy desparately needs a particular feature and another guy could care less about the same feature.

That is where the MODs come in. Almost every links program that I am aware of has a fair amount of MODs ( well, the poular ones that is ). Most Admins do a fair amount of customization to the links program, almost to the point that they may not be able to upgrade to the most recent version.

It is just my opinion that a particular links feature is not so much a question of good or bad but whether it meets your particular needs or not. And if it doesn't meet your needs, then the question is can it be modified to meet your needs.

And the fact that I can even do a MOD is positive proof that INDEXU is easy to modify because I KNOW that my PHP/mySQL skills are not great when I compare them to others who do the same thing.

Just some thoughts.

[Humle]

Originally posted by esm
there are two kind of accounts because there are two distinct kinds of folks who use your site: those that surf in looking for links and those that post links on your site. But it is easy to hack the code and have just one.

Well, I´ll have to disagree with you on this one! Dont you think that it is a little drastic to conclude that there are only two kinds of visitors on every link-index website?

I really cant see the big problem in letting the "add you listings" feature become a part of the User Accounts?

It is only one extra feature in these accounts and people who dont want to add their listings will only be "troubled" with one extra link in their User Account and it should be no problem to ignore this link if they dont need to add a website to the link-index.

In my world there are also users that want to create a User Account AND add their listings! And the system with two kind of Accounts is a BIG problem for these users!

And a even BIGGER problem for those users who have mulitble websites to add to the link-index.

As for hating to login to "modify your listing," if I understand what you are suggesting, then anyone could login to modify your listing. that would not be a good idea.

You have completely misunderstood my suggestion!

I believe I wrote: "dont you just hate the way you are supposed to login"

As for remembering the ID number, my experience is that folks are not any better at remembering their user name. that's what all those "forgot your password" links do. ( they send the username and password ).

I did actual know that "forgot your password" links do that!

I can guarantee you that it's alot easyer to remember ones e-mail address that it is to remember the ID number of all your listings.
This offcource being different from ever link-index to another link-index and offcource being different for every listing you add.

And most people on the internet have an e-mail address that is unique and very easy for them to remember.

as for multiple logins, that is more a function of the server and mysql than an issue with INDEXU. It is possible to share the user table but it that is something you would have to do outside of INDEXU. that is true of any program that you install and want "multiple instances" of the software.

This you willl have to elaborate further??

I am ofcource not talking about having the same User Account on every link-index on the WWW.

I am talking about having the same Username & Password on one single Indexu Powered website instead of having one account for every listing you want to add and one account for adding your favorite links.


I really cant see this being a problem for the users that dont want to add a listing.

The only thing they will have to do is ignore this feature. AND that must be easyer than having to create two different User Accounts if you want to add your favorite links and add your website to the link-index.


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I offcource understand the problem of every licence holder wanting the script being almost custome made for their purpose!

But I dont think that you can groupe this "Suggestion" to this category.

This is just a suggestion for making Indexu easyer for users as they with this suggestion would have no need of creating multible accounts.

It is indeed not in the interest of the webmasters that many of their visitors have multible accounts on their website!


Sincerely

Hans

[esm]

As I suggested in another thread, what may work for one links site, may not work for another. I use links to run a membership directory for my school. I do not want the "user" to post multiple listings.

Actually, one down side to combining them could be an increase in the use of system resources. If the "single" user started adding data to the additional fields and you had a large number of users/links, the size of the sql table could get to be quite large. Could be a problem if you have thousands of links/users.

Based on my experience withs links, I can almost guarantee you that if INDEXU had these two features combined, there would be someone out there that would want to separate them for their site.

Sounds like your issue is having separate logins. Two things. First, you should seek a MOD to combine them so your site will do what you want. Second, make a post to the various suggestion threads for v4 of INDEXU.

But remember. while you may think the current method to be dumb or illogical, there will be another INDEXU user who will think that a single combined method will be dumb and illogical.

I have set up INDEXU sites both ways and in each case, it was done "correctly." One with them combined and one with them separate.

As for using email accounts, my experience is that there are a lot of folks that change their email accounts over time. And they have several of them. It would work for some and not for others. I'm sure that it would work any better or worse than a username.

[Humle]

Originally posted by esm
As I suggested in another thread, what may work for one links site, may not work for another. I use links to run a membership directory for my school. I do not want the "user" to post multiple listings.

I completely understand that other webmasters do not want users to add multible listings, you included.


But is this good enough reason to exclude other webmasters from this feature??

I dont think that it would be a problem adding a "max listings per user"? But I'm not a indexu programmer?

Then your problem would be solved as well and other webmasters not using indexu like you do would have the option of letting users adding multible listings without having multible accounts.

Actually, one down side to combining them could be an increase in the use of system resources. If the "single" user started adding data to the additional fields and you had a large number of users/links, the size of the sql table could get to be quite large. Could be a problem if you have thousands of links/users.

And you dont think that if a site has thousands of links/users and 60 % (offcource depending of the type of the site) of those users wanted to add a listing (some of them up to 7 listings perhaps?) and ALSO wanted an account to add their favorite links, that the size of the SQL table could get to be even larger??


You would also brake the NUMBER ONE RULE in database systems because you are registering the same data about a user many times over.

This would not be a problem with only one account!

If the "single" user started adding data to the additional fields, he would at least not be entering the same data over and over again!

And I cant see no harm in getting more informations about ones users?

Based on my experience withs links, I can almost guarantee you that if INDEXU had these two features combined, there would be someone out there that would want to separate them for their site.

This might well be so, I dont know about that?? But I do know that with other portal solutions like phpnuke and postnuke this is not a problem for webmasters.

It's quite the opposite actually! When webmasters cant have all data about their users combined under one account, they cant stop complaining in the forums.

If indexu later on gets a lot of new features i.e. an Article service or Forum, should these so also have different User Accounts??
And thereby forcing all users who are in need of at least 2 services to register at least twice.

But remember. while you may think the current method to be dumb or illogical, there will be another INDEXU user who will think that a single combined method will be dumb and illogical.

I am aware of this problem! But I still think that most webmasters would rather avoid users having to create multible accounts putting redundante data in their tables. But that's just my opinion based on several years of experience with phpnuke & postnuke and other scripts that require many users to register.

As for using email accounts, my experience is that there are a lot of folks that change their email accounts over time. And they have several of them. It would work for some and not for others. I'm sure that it would work any better or worse than a username.

A username would also be better than the ID number from each listing you make, I agree with that.

But if they loose their e-mail address or switch to another e-mail address they still would have problems if they forgot their password.
Offcource even worse if we were to be talking about "passwords as it is now.



Sincerely

Hans

[esm]

well, the old saying is: "you are preaching to the choir." You don't have to convince me; you have to convince the folks at INDEXU.

I have created a MOD for a single registration/login that does exactly what you suggest.

And I didn't say I did not want folks to add multiple listing. I said that at some some sites it is appropriate and other sites it would not be.

from a programming standpoint, having the ID allows for much faster retreival of link records than a username as indexing on a numeric is much faster than an alphanumeric.

[Humle]

Originally posted by esm
well, the old saying is: "you are preaching to the choir." You don't have to convince me; you have to convince the folks at INDEXU.

And the folks at INDEXU have created a Category called "Suggestion Box" where I suppose they want people to come with suggestions??

And I am not trying to convince you. I posted this suggestion and you tried to push it to the ground with arguments I dont find good enough!

So offcource I post again to tell other readers why I think that this would be a great idea!

I have created a MOD for a single registration/login that does exactly what you suggest.

I read this the first time you wrote it! I guess that the problem with this will be that "the folks at INDEXU" will not consider this when making updates ...etc

And I didn't say I did not want folks to add multiple listing. I said that at some some sites it is appropriate and other sites it would not be.

Well, on my screen your text is: "I use links to run a membership directory for my school. I do not want the "user" to post multiple listings."

I can only read this as you saying you dont want users to post multiple listings ????

from a programming standpoint, having the ID allows for much faster retreival of link records than a username as indexing on a numeric is much faster than an alphanumeric.

What do you mean by this?? You will only need to retreive the link records by a username when a registered user is logging in to modify his listing.


Wheter it takes 1 second or 2 seconds for the user to login makes no difference.
If you want to optimize the script there would be other much more suiteble areas than to be concerned about link records retreival from ID rather than username.

[aladdin]

Hello,

1) I also think that one login is better than two
2) Why do you want users posting site to be members? I can post my site on Google, or Altavista or most of the major search engine with out being a member. Please do not tell me that it is to allow Webmaster to edit it, most do not, but a lot of users want their favorite site to be recognize, why do you want to make their task more difficult?
3) Knowing the intense spaming we are all victime off, requesting email when posting a new site is also a mistake.

[Humle]

Originally posted by aladdin
Hello,

1) I also think that one login is better than two

Yep!

2) Why do you want users posting site to be members? I can post my site on Google, or Altavista or most of the major search engine with out being a member.

Well, I dont think that you can compare a peace of software like INDEXU to Google or Altavista!
They are, as you wrote your self, "search engines" first of all and can not be compared to a "Link Index" like INDEXU.

Google & Altavista do how ever have a "Directory" similar to INDEXU and it's the same Directory for both of them and many of the major search engines use it.

It is called "Open Directory Project" http://dmoz.org/ and if you want to add your site to this Directory you will have to give a description, give them you e-mail address ........

Please do not tell me that it is to allow Webmaster to edit it, most do not, but a lot of users want their favorite site to be recognize, why do you want to make their task more difficult?

I dont quite understand what you mean by this? Offcource you must be able to edit your listing in a directory?

It's not a search engine with a "robot" that checks your site from time to time to see if there are any changes made to it.

3) Knowing the intense spaming we are all victime off, requesting email when posting a new site is also a mistake.

Well if you would suspect me of being a spammer I would not be interested in having your listing on my site and promote it for you



Many of the persons who have a INDEXU licence have requested features that make me believe that they intend to use it as a Business Directory and want to charge them for better position in search results ..... and so on...

If you want to run a professional link index (NOT a search engine) it is indeed very nessecery to have informations about the owners of the listings!