Yearly license renewal fees

[esm]

As you know, I spoke previously about license renewal fees each year. While the price hasn't been hammered out yet, I am 99% sure I have convinced Dody of the following

1) It will increase long term revenue
2) It will upset a number of customers
3) If users are going to pay yearly, they will demand constant updates
4) Dody will release regular updates and bugfixes
5) More products will be released as well as plugins and mods

I'm being honest and saying that I know charging renewal fees will not solve every issue. But it should solve the lack of constant updates.

...

This way users see the value in constant updates, and they also see active development and participation.

So the forum users have asked for things, and I've done my best to get them by convincing Dody and John that it's the right thing to do. Only time will tell if they continue to listen and do what has been talked about.

Please note - I never said version 6 would not be out this week as Dody stated. I said that v6 would not be out if people expect an "official" beta. Please don't misquote me.

I don't have a problem with a nominal yearly license renewal fee. As long as I get some value in return.

I think that value takes two forms, support and timeliness. I think the issues we've had with support have been well documented. We've had email support, help desk support and forum support. I think email and help desk have some limited role in providing support. It is no surprise that I am a strong proponent of forum support for a variety of reasons.

While brucepr has provided excellent administrative and general support, there is a definite need for technical support on the forum. that is a role only dody or one of his programmers can perform.

And the timeliness issue has also been well documented. if dody is going to charge me an annual license fee, I want him to be timely in what is done. From timely updates to timely forum repsonses to timely communications, dody needs to step-up-to-the-plate on this issue. It's just good common sense business practice.


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[Bruceper]

I agree that forum support is more important than helpdesk or email support simply due to the fact that the responses and subsequent fixes are public knowledge. Users that can search can find their answer, rather than waiting for a response.

You've brought up Dody providing support numerous times. I don't know if it's going to happen or not, so you'll have to wait to see on that one.

[esm]

...You've brought up Dody providing support numerous times. I don't know if it's going to happen or not, so you'll have to wait to see on that one.

Him or a knowledgeable INDEXU programmer.

Personally, the benefits far exceed the costs.


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[inspireme]

a yearly fee? the changes from 5.0 - 5.4 do not justify a charge. Before worrying about charging people update fees, why not show people for 3-4 months some great support levels, constant releases, new mods, and real progress? if you show people what they would miss out on without paying an upgrade fee people would be happier to do so..

If indexU has 7 new active programmers (which i doubt...) sparing one of them for 2-3 hours a day ont he forums would be no big deal, but a massive leap forward

i remember some of the awesome (and free) support esm gave people, code changes, hacks to customize things the way people wanted... although the simple questions get answered some of the more indepth questions get "you would need to modify it" instead of really good "programmer support" which would be "you need to modify the code like this ..."

Im not talking abotu making people mods and huge changes, but simple tweaks which require a few lines of code.

[John Milton]

Inspireme & ESM : were do you read about 7 worker ?

The truth is I invest in January 2008 for a 200m² office in Surabaya, in the same time I ask dody to hire 7 workers, but this take time and the 15 January 2008 the first team was ready with 4 workers, so with dody the total is 5 person at nicecoder team. (6 if you include me, but I prefer say I'm nothing)

After hire theses 4 workers I finally decide to wait few month before hire 3 more workers as I need to see if dody is able to manage them for "Team Work", it's new for him to manage worker, as a real "big boss".... I think after 2 month he's doing well so next step is to find 1 designer + 2 developper.

As I'm sad about this doubt so I ask here officialy Dody to make each of them introduce themself on forum with a nice picture and what they're doing on nicecoder company (2 are working on idesk and 2 other with dody is dedicated for IndexU Script), picture of office will be good also.

Even a section "Who we are" on Nicecoder will great to present the team.

PS : I want to also say I make a very long trip in asia from 15th January to 18th February (China, Japan, Thailand, and also Indonesia to see the office and my team for the very very first time of my life in Surabaya, then I invite dody and his family for a week end in Bali), so I know my invest is real. To finish I want you to know and understand that I'm not just here to take money, instead since I enter in nicecoder capital in March 2007 (one year and 2 month) I simply reinvest all the money I win after one year in this office because I'm sure nicecoder need this for a wealthy future !

Anyway, business is business and for future Nicecoder really need like almost all his competitor to tax for "renewal fee" (this mean license will be valid even after 1 year, but need to pay fee every year if you want to access future update) for all the products we have (or will release in future) to cover this new monthly fee of office + worker, but all of this is for sure to make better products, support, etc....

[esm]

Inspireme & ESM : were do you read about 7 worker ? ....

7 programmers

Communication...worth its weight in gold....do more of it.



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[John Milton]

"now there is supposed to be" <- I'm not good in english but "supposed to be" is not a confirmation, anyway you know now the real story....

About communication it's since November the work of Bruce to try relay as best as possible the news (newsletter, forum post & support, etc....) and he charge to nicecoder a very correct monthly fee for this work, it's all I can do for the moment for communication as there is still not to much to communicate for the moment !

[Bruceper]

"supposed" doesn't mean there is. This is the first I heard confirmation that there were less than the 7. It doesn't matter how many programmers there are though. People need to understand that there is more going on than just this forum and IndexU.

[esm]

"supposed" doesn't mean there is. This is the first I heard confirmation that there were less than the 7. It doesn't matter how many programmers there are though. People need to understand that there is more going on than just this forum and IndexU.

you are correct..."supposed" doesn't mean there is. but it does mean there is a reasonable expectation.

1. assumed as true, regardless of fact;
2. accepted or believed as true, without positive knowledge

The context it was used in would be similar to a statement about the impending release of v6: "INDEXU v6 is supposed to be released this week."

Lords knows I used the phrase "7 programmers" a whole bunch of times over the past month. And no one ever said any thing all those times

If folks want us to know what is going on behind the scenes then you have to tell us what is going on behind the scenes. I've been trying a long time but I can't understand what I don't know. I gave up mind reading when I met my wife. So if you want me to understand something, you have to tell me.

Communication is kind of like sex; too much is not enough.


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[FSGDAG]

I gave up mind reading when I met my wife. So if you want me to understand something, you have to tell me.

Communication is kind of like sex; too much is not enough.

ROFL!!!!!

You need to add those two lines to your sig!!! They are GREAT quotes!

[secero]

You sell the software with condition: FREE LIFETIME support and Updates.

Now you modify this of a side. For new purchasers can you carry out these, however, but for existing customers not, find I.

[Warz]

You sell the software with condition: FREE LIFETIME support and Updates.

Now you modify this of a side. For new purchasers can you carry out these, however, but for existing customers not, find I.

Agree, it's insanity!!

[echo@]

nicecoder is a business not a charity, the small renewall fee is well worth keeping the script alive. IMHA

If this is what has to be done so be it.

FREE LIFETIME support and Updates, Apply to IndexU 5.4 and bellow.

The "NEW" IndexU script is actually called "Indexu Deluxe" with new licening agreements, In fact this could be interprited as a completely new directory software. I dont see it as an upgrade at-all, maybe nicecoder should just drop the whole V6 thing and call it IndexU Deluxe V1 and the setup only states migration of indexu 5.4 instead of upgrade.

Either way its a lot of wingeing and moaning for the sake of a small renewall fee, like john said you can migrate to "indexu V6" and it will still continue to work past its renewal.

[dePaulus]

nicecoder is a business not a charity, the small renewall fee is well worth keeping the script alive. IMHA

If this is what has to be done so be it.

FREE LIFETIME support and Updates, Apply to IndexU 5.4 and bellow.

The "NEW" IndexU script is actually called "Indexu Deluxe" with new licening agreements, In fact this could be interprited as a completely new directory software. I dont see it as an upgrade at-all, maybe nicecoder should just drop the whole V6 thing and call it IndexU Deluxe V1 and the setup only states migration of indexu 5.4 instead of upgrade.

Either way its a lot of wingeing and moaning for the sake of a small renewall fee, like john said you can migrate to "indexu V6" and it will still continue to work past its renewal.

nicecoder is a business not a charity, the small renewall fee is well worth keeping the script alive. IMHA

If this is what has to be done so be it.

We all purchased from this "BUISNESS" because they PROMISED that ALL future updates were FREE...
I'm really tired of the PATHETIC responses from one or two people that keep saying that this is for V5.4 and below.. I challenge these people to show us where it states this... and I will show you where it CLEARLY states ALL Updates of IndexU.. IndexU 6 .. IndexU 16 .. IndexU 106 .. it does not matter, and if you are not all that familiar with English, feel free to lookup the meaning of ALL and LIFETIME!!.

Who say's NiceCoder is a charity?? NO ONE is asking for any freebies!!.. We have PAID for a script and we have PAID for FREE LIFETIME Upgrades and Support!!.. Yes,.. we PAID for it.. we did not ask for it, it was not given to us, it was included in the price, and any decent BUISNESS would honour their side of the deal.

The "NEW" IndexU script is actually called "Indexu Deluxe" with new licening agreements, In fact this could be interprited as a completely new directory software. I dont see it as an upgrade at-all, maybe nicecoder should just drop the whole V6 thing and call it IndexU Deluxe V1 and the setup only states migration of indexu 5.4 instead of upgrade.

Yes, this would be the pathetic way out of living up to your word!!.. Just stab your loyal customers in the back!!.. Take their money and run is another!

Either way its a lot of wingeing and moaning for the sake of a small renewall fee, like john said you can migrate to "indexu V6" and it will still continue to work past its renewal.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a renewel fee, it's about PRINCIPLE!!..
We paid for a product, and we expect to get what we paid for!!.. Nothing more.. nothing less!!

If you start a new job, and you were promised $50 an hour, and at the end of the month your boss tells you that to keep the company running he's lowered it to $30 an hour.. Are you just gonna sit back and accept it??

We all want this script to grow, we like the script, otherwise none of us would have bought (a) cop(y)ies, but we all need to stick to the agreement.. I don't remove the footer because it's not allowed without a removal payment... I do not give the retail script to certain people to "Null" I do not use previous Nulled versions that are available, NO, I like the script, and I support the script and programmers by purchasing it ... I keep to my side of the deal, and I expect the same.

I hope that Dody and John make the right decission on this one... I would just like to say..

Dont bite the hand that feeds the mouth

Regards.

de P

[echo@]

Its quite simple to understand,

new product, new licence, = renewal fee,

If your indexu installation does not return you more than what the renewall fee is per year ($30.00 single licence) then put down the computer and find a new hobby. Its not worth it

I dont see how or why nicecoder is supossed to provide free unlimited support and upgrades any other way.

Maybe you offer some alternive solution.

The way i see it is if you want to see any upgrades / updates, someone has to be paid to do it, renewal fees is the logical step.

How many free updates and upgrades have you seen in 5.4 life?

Are you suggesting dody/john/bruce should just do it for love

Change is good